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Joe Jackson (Father)

“Right On” Magazine (December 1972) Interview

Joe Jackson is a very groovy dude--there's no doubt about it! When Right On was invited out to visit Joe in his family‘s beautiful Encino borne. we just couldn't wait to find out what the father of The Jackson Five was really like. He seemed cool. He seemed wise. He seemed strong. He seemed like a man who would have to be super special--otherwise, there just couldn't be anything as together as The Jackson Five. And of course, Joe turned out to be exactly what he leaned!

After a casual walk around the Jackson's tree covered backyard, and a delicious glass of lemonade (thank you lovely Katherine Jackson, the J-5's mother), we settled down for our chat in between all the cords and microphones that decorate the J-5's own personal "music room" (a room they built for their rehearsals).

Future Recording Plans

"I‘m thinking about turning this room into a kind of recording studio.", Joe said, pointing out how the room could be easily converted. "That way the boys could tape some of their stuff right here. We could also record other young singers that we thought were good. We already use the room to make practice tapes. That helps a lot."

"What’s that mirror for?" I asked Joe, noticing that one of the walls had been converted into a huge mirror.

"Oh, that's so that the boys can see how they're doing when they practice.", Joe answered. Then he quickly added: "However, towards the end of their rehearsal periods, we draw those drapes closed so that they don't become too dependent on watching their dance steps and stuff. They have to start *feeling* when they're together and when they're not. For example, Marlon and Michael can get out of step for a second, and if they're using the mirror, they can immediately see that something's gone wrong and correct it. That's fine for early rehearsals. But there isn't going to he any mirror out there for them when they're performing before a live audience, right?" So the boys have to learn to feel when they're together and when they're not/ As you could see during their tour last summer, they really do find ways of keeping those complicated dance steps together!"

Obviously Joe Jackson is a very proud father! And who wouldn't be? Watching literally thousands and thousands of dedicated fans flip right out when his sons "do their thing", well, it‘s just mind blaming, even if he is their father.

DID DIANA ROSS REALLY DISCOVER THE J-5?

"Tell me", I asked, "is there any real truth to the Diana Ross story? Did she really 'discover' The Jackson Five or what?"

"Let me put it this way", Joe said slowly. "We were at the gate. To me it seems that there is an iron gate into the entertainment field, and there has to be a way to open that gate before you can get through, before people are willing to accept you in this field. We were one foot through the gate and one foot out. What Diana Ross did was more or less open that gate for us. Yes, as far as I'm concerned, that gate was opened for The Jackson Five by Miss Ross."

WHY WERE THE J-5 GOOD RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING?

Watching Michael, Randy, Jackie, Jermaine, Marlon, and Tito on stage and off, it's no surprise that their magic comes from deep within. The family is special. There's just no way of getting around that fact. I had to ask Joe why he thought his sons were good right from the git-go. "The boys obeyed! They would always listen and try to do anything that I would tell them to do. This means a great deal in the world of music, because it is understanding that counts. And you can't understand anything unless you're disciplined, unless you can take direction from someone else. Of course this doesn't mean that they just did what they were told and that was that. Obviously my sons have a lot inside then to give! But you have to be able to have some kind of an understanding with the musicians you're working with and this means discipline."

HOW DID THE J-5 GET THEIR NAME?

Joe smiled, "Well, I used to call them 'THE JACKSON BROTHERS'. Did you know that? One day we were doing some show in a department store in Gary--I think Michael was all of five at the time--and this model who had us on her show, Evelyn Lehey, said to me: 'Joe, The Jackson Brothers sounds a little old fashion. Why don't you call them the Jackson Five?' I thought that sounded like a good idea. and that's what we started to call them all the time: THE JACKSON FIVE."

"What about Randy?" I asked, "Will Randy make six or what? Will you just keep the same name anyway?"

RANDY WON'T MAKE THE GROUP: THE J-6

"We have to keep the same name. See, it‘s a name that went down so big and so many people know us by THE JACKSON FIVE. The actual number in the group really doesn't matter. We have great plans for Randy because Randy's very, very talented! He plays the congos and drums and he's playing the piano fantastically. He studies a lot and seems to like what he's doing--and boy, does he catch on fast. I'd like to see Randy go into the writing and arranging field of music, because he seem to have a special ear for all that."

MICHAEL'S THE #1 LEADER

Despite all Joe's enthusiasm for Randy, there's little doubt who he feels leads The Jackson Five:

"Michael has always had the talent for being a leader. He doesn't play any instruments onstage, so he can run around and get close to the fans. Being a natural leader, he's always been into moving around and making gestures with his hands, dancing, spinning around, while the rest of the boys sort of stand in the background playing and singing. Michael was always the smallest and the swiftest, and he could dance the best and sing very, very well. It's just the way he's cut.

JERMAINE SINGS TO AN OLDER AUDIENCE

"Jermaine sings to a much older audience.” Joe continued. "Michael sings to the little ones--Randy too, but Jermaine is getting a very special audience. It's been happening slowly, but it is happening. Tito and Jackie play a major part to background harmony. You see that's not to he ignored! If your background singing doesn't sound good, then your leads can't lead!“

JOE REMAINS IN CHARGE OF HIS SONS!

Summing up his part in forming and keeping The Jackson Five's magic. Papa Joe told us:

You see, my sons were never allowed to run the streets like a lot of other kids did. They were never out all times of the night. They always had to be in just when it would start to get dark and we knew where they were at all times.

"They never went riding around in different cars with different kids and they never got into any kind of trouble! Their record is clean and we hope to keep it clean! As a father you have to stand behind your kids and talk to them and help them learn what is right and what is wrong. It's hard, because often they don't understand--but when they get older, they realize. They see what's happening."

Yes, the Jackson brothers have much to be grateful for with a father like Joe Jackson--and the nicest part is that they know it!

“Entertainment Rap!” Magazine (Interview Part 1 of 4)

...R: Did you play an instrument? J.J.: Yes, I played the guitar and sang as well. We would rehearse around the house, while Jackie and Maureen (who were just small kids) would go crawling around on the floor. They'd listen to us playing and singing, even then, and you could tell they really liked it.

Unfortunately, the fellows and I began to realize that it was going to take a lot of money to get our thing off the ground. So what I did was transfer a lot of my own music interest to my sons. It was obvious to me that they were interested anyway, so what I did was start Jackie and Jermaine and the rest of the small boys singing and playing music.

R: How did you do that? Describe some of the ways you did that. Their interest was already there, so...?

J.J.: Yes. their interest was there because they used to watch, you know, and try to copy what we were doing. This was around 1959. I was already rehearsing them rather seriously. I used to put them through a rehearsal everyday for 4 hours until I finally got them to where they could go out and be on some type of talent show. This took about a year.

R: How many of the boys were in the group then? All five?

J.J.: Yes, all five. We were beginning to do some a talent shows around Gary, as well as some little clubs in the city. First they won a few local talent Ms. then the won a statewide talent show and it led to bigger things, such as college dates. Then the college dates led to the Regal Theatre in Chicago and from there we went to New York and played the Apollo Theatre. After that we went to The Uptown Theatre in Philadelphia. Mostly they played theatres dining school vacations because, remember, they were in school too!

R: What did they need from you during this time? How would you describe what you were doing to actually help them? Was it just your presence, or were you directing them musically?

J.J.: I was directing them musically. I was seeing to it that they rehearsed everyday! I had become very friendly with some booking agents called Universal Attractions in New York. We weren't signed to them or anything, but they were good friends. So everytime the boys had some time out of school, these people would get in touch with me and we'd reach some kind of agreement for them to do dates in different parts of the state.

We were beginning to spread out more. It was like The Temptations or Gladys Knight & The Pips would he on the same shows we were playing. This kind of exposure led to a recording contract with a small record company called Steeltown.

R: Did the J-5 release any songs on that label?

J.J.: They released one song called "I'm A Big Boy Now", I only had a 6 month contract with them because they were a small company located in Gary, Indiana. Then I began to make other recording arrangements. I was trying to get something started but we found out that the boys really liked Motown’s style of music. They loved The Temptations and Diana Ross!

R: How true Is the “Diana Ross/J-5 Story" that everyone tells. Was it true that she saw your sons in Gary, Indiana and got so excited she brought them to see Berry Gordy at Motown?

J.J.: Let me put it this way. We were at the gate. In music, I mean being into the entertainment field as professionals, there‘s always an iron gate for everyone to get through. "They" have to be willing to accept you in this field. We had like one foot in the gate, and one foot out. What Diana Ross did, more or less, was to open that gate for us. Once we got in, it was with Motown. But as far as I'm concerned, it's like I said: the gate was opened by Miss Ross. In fact, she just called me this morning to say she’d be coming over to visit all of us this evening. She's a good friend!

R: When you went with Motown, did they change the group's sound a lot?

J.J.: Yes, they did change the sound of the group. They changed it to a sound of their own because they felt the J-5 were singing a little bit of everybody's style. The style was changed to much more of a "bubble gum” type sound for younger generation people.

R: (Laughing) Which worked rather well, we might say!

J.J.: (Laughing) Yes! The style was liked by blacks and white alike, and this meant a whole lot to the J-5. It made for good singing and a lot of records being sold!

R: At this point you must have given up a lot of your control over the group, right? You felt you had made the right connection for the boys.....

J.J.: I knew it was the right connection. We had something to offer, you know! We had a good grasp before we came to Motown. We were doing professional work already.

R: Can you get into that more? What madly was it that was so obviously good about your sons from the beginning. You were so close to them. How would you describe their magic, their excitement?

J.J.: The boys would obey! They would listen and they would try to do anything that you would tell them to do. This means a great deal in music because it’s understanding that counts. If you get a good understanding going between you and the musicians you're working with, things get across better.

Before we came to Motown, we were in exile. I was sort of like trying to find out which direction to go as far as the entertainment field was concerned. I was trying to find exactly what recording company to decide on. This took a year. One year of doing things for all the disc jockeys in the East and Midwest, as far as Kansas City. R: What do you mean "doing things"? What kind of things?

Entertainment Rap (Interview Part 3 of 4)

R: How do you make the decisions about what music equipment the boys use on stage?

J.J.: We buy the equipment as we need it. Some songs we record have a different sound, so we have to have the right musical equipment onstage to reproduce that sound. It's important that we get the same sound on stage as we get in the studio.

R: Why did Motown move you to California?

J.J.: It wasn't so much that California was the place for us, but that California's the place where entertainment is going to he a major thing in the music world--which it already is. Out here you've got television shows, the movie industry, all sorts of contacts. And that's one of the things Michael and Jermaine are really looking forward to.

R: What is?

J.J.: Doing movies.

R: Michael and Jermaine want to make films?

J.J.: Oh yes. Michael has done a little bit of acting on different television shows. And Jermaine would really like to have a chance to do a film. I think they'd make very good actors, if they could just get the right parts. It doesn't have to be a whole movie of them. They could just have parts in it. Ever since Michael sang the title tune to "Ben", he's wanted to get more things in the movie field. Yes, if anybody's interested tell them--The J-5 would like to do a good movie... real bad!

R: Far out! I had no idea they wanted to act.

J.J.: They still want to keep singing, though.

R: Oh, of course. That goes without saying. I just didn't know they had something else they were interested in trying, like films.

J.J.: Oh, sure. We have all kinds of plans.

R: Like...?

J.J.: Like recording other groups. You know, setting up our own studio and uniting records on groups we would "discover". Also I have plans for my youngest daughter, Janet. I think she could be a singer on the Diana Ross status. She already sings well, and she likes it. She's outgoing and pleasant, and she's not shy!

R: I noticed! That was a funny story she told me about Randy riding his bicycle into the swimming pool by mistake!

J.J.: Ha, ha... yes! Janet's not afraid to talk to people, that‘s for sure.

R: Now you wouldn't add her to the Jackson 5 would you, the way you've done with Randy?

J.J.: We don't know what's going to happen yet. It‘s a little early for that. We're sort of grooming her now. She gets in end tries to play different instruments. She sings alone with Michael and Randy and they sound pretty good together. I’d like to see Randy nod Janet get a song together. Yeah, they'd be a good team together!

R: When is Jackie's solo album due out?

J.J.:It‘s going to be released as soon as he gets through working on it. As a matter of fact, he's out out having his pictures taken for the cover right now.

R: Do you think any of your sons will wind up writing music seriously?

J.J.: Oh yes. They can write music now. They've already written some good songs, they‘re just not recording them yet. I'd like to make some demonstration recordings of the stuff they've written to see how it sounds on tape.

R: Do you rehearse regularly even when you're not touring?

J.J.: Yes. A new song comes out and we want to get a big jump on it so we can get all the techniques down good. So we rehearse it over and over see what we can do it.

R: With everybody on different schedules--like Jackie out getting photos taken now, and Tito living somewhere else--how do you organize when you'll practice in advance?

J.J.: Well we con rehearse without Jackie and Tito, you know. All we have to do is get the music guys to learn their part of the song first. Whoever isn't here can learn their part by themselves, bring it in another time and put it together with the rest.

R: What "music guys“?

J.J.: Tito, Jermaine... our drummer Johnny.

R: Ahh. So they don't all have to be here at the same time?

J.J.: No.

R: And when you record a song, do you put down the instrumental track first and then add the vocals later?

J.J.: Yes.

Entertainment Rap (Interview Part 4 of 4)

Joe Jackson Interview (Part 4 of 4)

RAP: What do you do when you travel with them?

J.J.: I more or less advise the boys' road manager Reggie, and help to see that everything goes well at the rehearsal before each show. During showtime I walk around and see how the sound seems to be working, which is easy because if you see The J-5's fans up in the top balcony keeping time to whatever the boys are singing onstage, that means the sound's getting out ok. If they're not doing anything up there, then I know they can't hear the music right.

RAP: Is it a big hassle taking so much stuff with you when

you travel? I mean I'm looking around this room right

now at all these unpacked trunks with the boys'

instruments and whatever. Do you ever discover

you've left something in Chicago and something

else in Cleveland? How do you keep it together?

J.J.: Oh we have an equipment man who handles that.

RAP: Just one person?

J.J.: Yes. And we have a security man also. Bill, who takes care of the boys. He really looks out for them. He's a wonderful man. He's also a detective for the LAPD. He's very good.

RAP: What do you mean? What kind of things does he have to watch out for?

J.J.: Well, he goes on tour with us and makes sure that they put something around the stages to keep fans from getting to the boys. He organizes security, like ten to fifteen policemen within the city and hires them to stand around the stage to make sure no one gets through and climbs on stage.

RAP: Is this a constant problem? Well, of course it is, I don't know why I asked that!

J.J.: Oh yeah! A lot of times we've had to actually stop the show because some fans have gotten through and start attacking the boys.

RAP: Jermaine told me that the last time you were on tour everytime they sang "Never Can Say Goodbye", the audience thought they were about to split so they pushed the stage and missed two numbers the J-5 still planned to sing.

J.J.: Right. That was really funny. The boys had to drop their instruments and race offstage before the concert was really even over. They actually had at least two more songs they were going to sing, but there's nothing you can do once those kids start rushing the stage. Fifteen policemen can't do much!

RAP: That must be very frightening. Is it flattering for them or just plain terrifying?

J.J.: Well, I'm sure they understand that no one is out to do them any intentional harm, but let me put it to you this way: When those girls start rushing--[illegible] some run for their lives!

RAP: Yes, I see their point.

J.J.: course Michael was nearly devoured!

RAP: How was Europe? The reports we got were sensational!

J.J.: We were mobbed everywhere.

RAP: I hate to keep bringing up this Beatles parallel, but do you realize that that's exactly what happened when The Beatles finally came to America for the first time? Everyone had heard so much about them and of course they had several big hits over here just like your boys do in Europe, so that when they finally arrived...! Well everyone knows they changed the entire course of pop music over here. I wonder what the J-5's impact will be now that the tour is over.

J.J.: I don't know. All I can tell you is that when we arrived in London we couldn't even hear the jet engines the kids were screaming so loud! They pulled hair out of Jermaine's head! Tito was bruised; Marlon was shaken; Randy was absolutely panicked; even Jackie was nervous; and of course Michael was nearly devoured!

RAP: Were you scared?

J.J.: Yes.

RAP: Were you proud?

J.J.: Yes.

TAP: I guess we all are.

J.J.: Yes!

“Time” magazine (March 19, 1984)

"I remember when Michael was a little kid. We used to do personal appearances on Friday and Saturday nights. I'd take the children out all over the city and into other cities. Michael would get his allowance every week from the tours. I gave him $20, and he would buy a lot of candy. He would call all his friends in the neighborhood and Michael would give them candy, and he would enjoy them eating candy. That was the main thing he liked to do, and he loved to sing and dance. Michael's got the gift all right. It's in the record sales and it's in his voice. When he was only about five years old, he sang songs like "Tobacco Road" and "Cloud Nine" by the Temptations, some of the other songs from Motown. We had a record player and we had our records. We had to learn those

We had to learn those types of songs to be able to go out on Saturday night and sing to people.

"When he was younger, he liked animals, and he still does. At home now we have a llama, fawns, though they're big ones now, and we have a ram, and a boa constrictor. Michael has three parrots, two pairs of swans, one's a black pair, one's white. Sometimes those swans get to fighting out there, plopping around water out there, and it wakes you up. He has some peacocks. I like animals, but I can be tired of them after a while.

"Michael never gets tired of an animal. He is like a child. In other words, he is still growing up. He still looks for advice from Katherine and me, and we give it to him. He is very shy. I say that he's shy around a few people, but onstage in front of thousands and thousands of people, he really comes across. If he was here with you and me, he would be shy. He seems to be doing pretty well; he hasn't gone crazy over all his success. It's very hard. He's got a lot of people trying to get to him and bother him and he has to smile when he wants to cry. It can rough sometimes. But that's show biz. You either have to deal with it or get out of it.

"I guess we were able to protect him when he was little by reading the Bible and all that. Michael is religious, more so than his brothers. He is a devoted Jehovah's Witness. They were all brought up studying the Bible. My boys are very good. They're not into drugs. I'm not just saying it. Other people can tell you that too. There's nothing wrong with having a little drink once in a while, but they don't even do that. They don't smoke. They're in good health. Michael is thin as a razor. He goes into that studio sometimes, and he dances two hours without even stopping, and that tells me he's in great shape. Michael always could dance, and he was good at choreography, makes his own steps up. Most of the choreography you see the Jacksons do, they have some input, but Michael does a lot of it.

"Michael is a vegetarian. I mean really a vegetarian. He's the type of vegetarian hardly that hardly eats anything. No fish. No meat. Nuts and grapes and things of that sort, and dishes that a cook come in to fix. For fun, Michael sometimes plays with the llama he has here and invites all the relatives, the kids. He has a popcorn machine--you've seen those old-time popcorn wagons on wheels you can walk up to and pop corn. That's what he does. He pops corn for the kids. He has an ice-cream machine that makes this frozen custard and he gives all the kids custard. He likes to dress casual all the time. When you see Michael dress, it's a statement for just that purpose."

...We turn around and walk down the hallway again, but this time to the far end of the house. I am still following Jackson. He knocks on a closed door. "Michael, I have someone I want you to meet." I can't hear what Michael says. "Can I bring her into your room?", asks Joe. He opens the door. The only light comes from a television set. The light glistens off Michael's hair. He and a young man about 20 are sitting side by side on straight-backed chairs facing the television. Michael is watching it intently. They stand up. Michael is wearing a blue coat and dark pants. The friend is wearing a plain white shirt and black pants. The room is very dark. There seems to be outlines of figures against the wall. Above the TV are shelves, and on the top one I can see what looks like dolls or mannequins about two feet tall.

Michael, in a very quiet voice, introduces his friend to his father, giving only one name. I cannot hear it. Jackson introduces me to Michael, saying that I am from "Time" magazine. He adds, "We just had a nice long interview". Michael and I shake hands. His hand feels like a cloud. He barely says, "Hi." His friend extends his hand, which is damp. He seems nervous. Michael stares with his almond eyes for a long minute and turns to the television. There is silence and I feel that Joe is uncomfortable. It is so dark I cannot see anything. We back out of the room and Joe shuts the door. We walk away and he says, "Michael has a friend over. He isn't about to give any interviews. You got pretty close, though."

I call a cab. We walk outside.