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Lisa Robinson Phone Interview
Date confirmed in Vanity Fair
Lisa Robinson, “There Goes Gravity: A Life in Rock and Roll”, autobiography
On February 15, 1985, in a phone interview from Los Angeles, Michael asked me why I didn’t come to L.A. more often. I told him it was too bright, that I wore black clothes and the lint became too noticeable. He was surprisingly candid about his dissatisfaction with many aspects of the Jacksons’ “Victory” tour. I asked him if, especially after his massive solo success, working with his family again had been a problem. “Well . . . it depends,” he said. “I never really wanted to use a lot of the people we had, but it became a voting thing. It was unfair to me, you know? I was outvoted a lot of times. I always like using A-1 people who are considered the best in their field, I’ve always tried to do everything first class. But it was a different story with the family. And the fact that it was the biggest tour that ever happened, and my success has been so overwhelming, it’s as if they’re waiting to throw darts at you. You know [Barbra] Streisand once said—I taped it, on 20/20—she said when she first came out, she was new and fresh, and everybody loved her. They built her up and then . . . they knocked her down. And she felt, ‘Oh, is that it?’ You know, she’s human, she can’t take it, she can’t just forget about it.” I said that backlash often follows success. “Yes,” he said, “and Steven Spielberg’s going through that. . . . But I’m a strong person. I don’t let any of it bother me. I love doing what I do.” I mentioned that some of his fans were upset because the ticket prices on the “Victory” tour were high. “You know, none of that was my idea,” Michael said, exasperated. “I was outvoted. I mean, mail order tickets—I didn’t want that. Our production was so big it had to pay for itself, but still, even then, I didn’t want the ticket price so high. But I was outvoted. Don King . . . all of it. It’s tough, especially when it’s your family. It’s hard to see your brothers and look in their eyes and see they’re upset with something. Or they won’t talk to you. But I’m going to do bigger and better things in the future. I’m compelled to do what I’m doing and I can’t help it, I love performing. I love creating and coming up with unusual new things. To be a kind of pioneer. You know, innovative. I get excited about ideas, not about money. Ideas is what excites me.”
I asked Michael if he was as insulated and isolated as people thought. “Well, a lot of that is true,” he said, “but I get a chance to have fun. I show films and I play games and have friends over sometimes. I love children and stuff. I get to play with them—that’s one of my favorite things to do. Performing is fun, I miss that, but I’ve been writing a lot of good stuff lately and I’m excited about the songs I’m coming up with. I put my soul, my blood, sweat and tears into Thriller. I really did. And not only Thriller, I was doing the E.T. [soundtrack] album at the same time. That was a lot of stress. And [when we first] mixed the Thriller album, it sounded like crap. It was terrible. I cried at the listening party. I said, ‘I’m sorry, we can’t release this.’ I called a meeting with Quincy, and everybody at the [record] company was screaming that we had to have it out and there was a deadline, but I said, ‘I’m sorry, I’m not releasing it.’ I said, ‘It’s terrible.’ So we re-did a mix a day, we rested two days, then we did a mixing. We were overworked. But it all came out okay.”
In a phone interview from Los Angeles on February 15, 1985, Michael admitted to me his problems with the tour and the pressures of working with his family—especially after having had such huge solo success.
L.R. I haven’t seen you since the Garden.
M.J. I know. What have you been doing? Do you still love New York?
L.R. Of course.
M.J. Better than L.A.?
L.R. You know, I haven’t been out to L.A. in so long …
M.J. You don’t like us out here?
L.R. I think it’s too … bright. Anyway, were you happy with the tour?
M.J. Well … ummm … it depends. I never really wanted to use a lot of the people we had, but it became a voting thing. It was unfair to me, you know? I was outvoted a lot of times. I never liked doing things that way. I always liked using A1 people who are considered excellent in their field. I’ve always tried to do everything first-class. Use people who are the best. But it was a different story with the family. And the fact that it was the biggest tour that ever happened, and my success has been so overwhelming, it’s as if they’re waiting to throw darts at you, too You know [Barbra] Streisand once said … um, I taped it, on 20/20, she said she first came out, she’s new and fresh, everybody loved her, and they built her up and then … they knocked her down. And she felt, you know, ‘Oh, is that it?’ You know, she’s human, she can’t take it, she can’t just forget about it.
L.R. Well, when you get that big, there is this backlash … people get jealous.
M.J. I know. Steven Spielberg’s going through that … But I’m a strong person. I don’t let any of it bother me. I love doing what I do and I’m gonna keep moving mountains and doing bigger and better things because it makes people happy.
L.R. I heard some of the fans were upset because the ticket prices were high.
M.J. You know, that wasn’t my idea. None of that was my idea. I was outvoted. I mean, mail order … I didn’t want that—I didn’t want the ticket price the way it was … our production was so big, it had to pay for itself, but still, even then, I didn’t want the ticket price so high. But … I was outvoted … Don King … all of it, I was outvoted. And it’s tough, especially when it’s your family. Like Lionel Richie said with the Commodores, he would do the same thing, and he would say, ‘Can we talk about it?’ But they’re not his brothers.… It’s hard to see your brother and they’re upset with something and you can look in their eyes and see it, or they won’t talk to you. But I’m going to do bigger and better things in the future. I’m compelled to do what I’m doing and I can’t help it—I love performing. I love creating and coming up with unusual new things. To be a kind of pioneer. You know, innovative. I just love it. I get excited about ideas, not about money; ideas is what excites me.
L.R. The conception about you is that you’re totally insulated and isolated, locked up, can’t go anywhere …
M.J. Well, a lot of that is true, but I get a chance to have fun, you know. I show films, and I play games and have friends over sometimes, and I love children and stuff. I get to play with them; that’s one of my favorite things to do. Performing is fun. I miss that, but I’ve been writing a lot of good stuff lately and I’m real excited about the songs I’m coming up with.
L.R. Wherever I go in the world, I hear your songs.
M.J. Well, it just proves that what you put into something you get out of it. And I put my soul, my blood, sweat, and tears, into Thriller. I really did. And not only was it Thriller, but I was doing E.T. at the same time, the E.T. [soundtrack] album. And that was a lot of stress. But [when we first] mixed the Thriller album, it sounded like crap.
L.R. What?
M.J. Oh, it was terrible. And I cried at the listening party. I said, “I’m sorry—we can’t release this.” I called a meeting with Quincy, and everybody at the [record] company was screaming that we had to have it out and there was a deadline, and I said, “I’m sorry, I’m not releasing it.” I said, “It’s terrible.” So we re-did a mix a day. Like a mix a day. And we rested two days, then we did a mixing. We were overworked, but it all came out O.K.