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"Ebony" Magazine Interview

Whatever happened to the five cute little boys from Gary, Ind., who called themselves The Jackson Five and sang their first big concert in 1969 wearing suits their mother had made on her Singer sewing machine?

They are, of course, no longer little boys. They are 10 years older and considerably richer and more famous; an estimated 90 million of their records have been sold worldwide. They are outfitted by the best tailors--except for Michael, who has no interest whatsoever in clothes--and if their mother, Mrs. Katherine Jackson, wants to mend a sock or something, she has her choice of Rolls-Royces to drive to the corner store for a spool of thread.

Three of the Jackson brothers--Jackie, Tito and Marlon--are married and have children. At 21, Michael is unmarried but is reported to have "a thing" going with actress Tatum O'Neal, who is 15. Randy, the youngest (he'll soon be 18), is, for teenage girls, a heartthrob with lots of youthful sex appeal.

The Jacksons' father, Joe, is finally calling all the shots as manager of their career--after pulling them away from Motown Records and taking them to Epic, a CBS Records label, in 1976. The old Jackson Five are now The Jacksons (Motown owned the former name), and their latest record album, "Destiny", is a block-buster that has sold nearly 1,500,000 copies. (One of its hit tunes, Shake Your Body, which was written by Michael and Randy, has racked up more than two million as a 45 rpm single.) The album was the perfect kickoff for one of the Jacksons' most successful tours--appearances before hundreds of thousands of fans in Europe and in 26 U.S. cities. The tour grossed millions of dollars, but money is something the Jackson don't like to discuss.

"Talking about how rich you are and standing next to fancy cars and things is tacky and tired", Michael says. "Just say that we've been out there working a long time and we've been financially successful." Pressed a bit, he adds quietly, as if he's embarrassed to admit it, "Well, yeah, sure, we're all millionaires... at least that, but why talk about it? How much someone is worth financially is a private matter and we've always tried to keep it that way."

It is reliably reported that The Jacksons have lucrative real estate investments and considerable in-the-bank cash, and if Joe Jackson has his way, that will increase very soon. "Everyone knows that the business side of the entertainment business is where the really big money is," he says, "and it's that side that I've always wanted the fellows to be deeply involved in. When they were with Motown, they were quite young and they had a contract that didn't permit them to do certain things. They did what they were told to do. Now they're no longer kids, and they have a new contract with Epic which allows them to write their own material, they have their own publishing company, and they can produce their own albums. Those are some of the key things I've always wanted for them."

There are those who thought The Jackson Five, like some other former Motown acts, would end up on welfare or working as busboys if they abandoned the warm comforts of the Motown "nest." There was talk that they had been "ripped off" for years and, therefore, had left Mother Motown in disgust. And it was actually rumored that "certain people" had decided to "destroy" the Jacksons' career as a lesson to other entertainers who might be thinking of shopping around for better contracts. Nothing so drastic happened, but for a time things were not rosy at all. The Jacksons' first albums for Epic--"The Jacksons" and "Goin' Places"--didn't "go platinum" as had been expected, and a couple of questions were raised: Was it because Jermaine had quit the group and stayed with Motown (he is married to Motown owner Berry Gordy's daughter Hazel), thus creating a break in the always tightly-knit family, and perhaps taking away a bit of spark? Had the brothers' strong selling point, their youthful appeal, all but faded, thus throwing them into direct competition with such mature groups as Earth, Wind & Fire and The Commodores--competition a bit too strong?

Quite a few high-level "skull sessions" were held between The Jacksons and the Black Music experts at Epic. The decision: hit hard with a third album--one which The Jacksons themselves would write and produce and have a hand in things ranging from the album cover design to promotion and marketing techniques. The album "Destiny" resulted, and it zoomed to the top of the charts, pulling The Jacksons over the million-plus sales mark into Platinum Land for the first time in years. Only by late summer had The Jacksons been able to settle down from the joyride--the intercontinental concert tour, dozens of TV appearances, autograph sessions, interviews, etc. "It's been sort of like starting our career all over again," Marlon Jackson says.

With Jermaine Jackson now on his own (he has yet to come up with a smash hit, but is managing the popular group Switch) and with Jackie, Tito and Marlon no longer nestling beneath Mommy's and Daddy's wings, what has happened to the "family togetherness" that characterized Katherine and Joe Jackson and their children for so many years? "Very, very little has changed", says Jackie Jackson as he cuddles his two-year-old son Sigmund II. "We're still very close, we visit one another all the time, we support what each one is doing, and there's still that old family love." While family business discussions are usually held at the sprawling family home where Michael and Randy and their sisters LaToya and Janet still live (another sister, Maureen Brown, lives with her husband in Kentucky), pool parties or cookouts may bring everyone together at the home of Jackie and his wife Enid, to the nearby home of Marlon and Carol and their daughters Valencia, 4, and Brittny Chante, 2, or to the hill-top Spanish villa that Tito and Debris are remodeling and enlarging in case there are additions to their family of three boys, Toriano, 6; Taryll, 4, and Tito Joe, 1. Randy says that right now he is "in love with all the girls," and Michael says that he has "plenty of time" to think about marriage, and he is not eager to discuss his friendship with Ryan O'Neal's daughter Tatum, 15. He says she is the first girl he ever dated, admits that they are "very close"--then says no more. The relationship has already created too much controversy--involving Tatum's age, mainly, and then there's the interracial thing, too--and The Jacksons avoid controversy at all cost. For example, they abandoned plans to include South Africa on their 10th anniversary tour after several Black organizations threatened to boycott them worldwide, and they have yet to accept an offer involving "a fabulous amount of money" to do a series of concerts in Saudi Arabia. They don't want to appear to be taking sides in the Arab-Israeli dispute, they say. For the same reason, they once found themselves "unable" to accept an invitation to dine at the Beverly Hills mansion of a wealthy young Arab. "People would have made a political thing out of it, and we don't want anything to do with politics," Tito explains. "Look at what politics did to the careers of Jane Fonda, Charlie Chaplin and some others."

After 10 years at the top, The Jacksons have come to somewhat of a career crossroads--one at which they have to decide how to retain the loyalty of the young fans who have been their greatest supporters and who kept them on the record charts during their somewhat shaky transition from Motown to Epic, and how to reach out for the vast dollars controlled by the post-puberty crowd. Financially, it wouldn't be bad at all if The Jacksons are able to also come up with products that will achieve "crossover" appeal to legions of White record buyers. "Almost every day we're working on new things", says Tito, who first urged his parents and brothers to form a professional group when they were entertaining for nobody but themselves in their living room in Gary, Indiana, a decade ago. And Michael adds: "All of us think we've got whatever's necessary to appeal to everybody. Plus, we're still young and there are all kinds of other things ahead for us--more writing and producing, movies, TV... all kinds of things. I think all the fellows would agree that right now we're all very happy people, we love what we're doing and what we're going to be doing and can't wait to bring it forth."

[SOLO INTERVIEW]

Michael Jackson has always been considered as the "star" of The Jacksons and achieved additional fame as "The Scarecrow" in the movie "The Wiz". Also a top solo recording artist, he recently released a new album, "Off The Wall", produced by Quincy Jones. One of the album's hit tunes is "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough". EBONY asked him for his views:

On how The Jacksons share earnings: "We're all on the stage together and do about the same amount of work, so we share everything equally. Of course, if one of as does a solo album or movie or something else on our own, we keep what we earn."

On Black superstars forgetting their roots: "I can't speak for anyone else, any other group, but The Jacksons never forget that we wouldn't be where we are if it weren't for our fans. We've always done benefits for groups and we support a lot of organizations."

On "raunchy" song lyrics: "I don't criticize other entertainers, but I don't see any reason for singing songs that are vulgar or sexually explicit. I refuse to sing songs like that, because I think entertainers are in a position today to change a lot of minds about certain things, especially young peoples' minds."

On his ability as a dancer: "I've never taken a dance lesson in my life. A number of great dancers, such as Sammy Davis and Fred Astaire, have shown me certain kinds of steps, but most of the time I practice by myself and work out my own routines."

On clothes: "I suppose many people would expect me to be very fashion-conscious, but all I need are a couple of shirts and some corduroy pants. I have almost no clothes. I don't even have a suit. Except for the things we have to wear onstage, clothes just don't interest me."

On what does interest him: "People. Books. My music, of course. And animals--but exotic animals, not ordinary dogs and cats. I try to go to the zoo in every city we visit. I go there to look at rare, exotic animals and birds. If you watch a cougar, for example, his movements are just fantastic. Watch a llama and see how he behaves, or a peacock or other beautiful bird."

On whether he thinks of himself as a certain kind of animal: "Lots of times--especially when I'm onstage. The way birds move will give you some great ideas for dance routines. And then the cougar--well, sometimes I think that if I had to be an animal, I'd like to be a cougar, and sometimes I try to move as cougars do in the jungle; sort of sly, cunning, but taut with energy. A cougar; that's what I'd be."

On religion: "I avoid using the term 'religion', because so many people say 'my religion' this and 'my religion' that. Why should it be my religion? I just believe what's in the Bible without regard to which religion is involved. I simply believe."

On his belief in prayer: "I believe in it, and I get down on my knees every night and thank God and ask Him to lead the way."

On why he doesn't break away from The Jacksons and make his own career as his close friend Diana Ross did when she left The Supremes: "My brothers and I get along fine. There's no ego problem with us; each of us knows what the other can do, and we think everybody has a role in our act. Right now, we feel that The Jacksons are still in evolution. It's just not the time to make any drastic change. I'll do more films and my own albums, but right now the group comes first. Anyway, I don't do very many things until a certain force tells me to do them. The force tells me when, and then I make my move."

On whether he regrets that he is not in college: "I do, but our career has kept all of us busy. I don't neglect my education, however. I read all kinds of things--magazines, books, encyclopedias, whatever can help me have a greater understanding of life. Some of the greatest thinkers in history were self-educated, you know, so I'm learning as much as possible on my own."

On whether he has any close friends: "There are a lot of people I like, and I think they like me, but only time will tell whether our friendships are really true ones, close ones. Diana Ross and I have some deep, deep conversations at times--especially on the phone, because I'm much deeper in conversation on the phone than I am in person."

On whether that means that he is extraordinarily shy: "Most people think I am, and it's true. My brothers say that everybody intimidates me. That's not true, but I do avoid eye contact with a lot of people. I'd much rather talk on the phone."

On the success of The Jacksons: "I've always thought of success and failure, as being, somewhat, like two girls--one who's super beautiful, the other one quite unattractive. The beautiful girl, which could represent success, shouldn't be boastful about her beauty; she shouldn't go around bragging about it, and she shouldn't poke fun at the less attractive girl. Neither girl made herself; God made them both (Ed.-- i.e. Both perfectly made) I feel that way about the success The Jacksons have achieved. We didn't make ourselves; God did. And He gave us whatever talent we have, and we always think He's projecting something through us for the whole world to share and enjoy. That's how we have always seen ourselves."